Приглашение японцев на форум

[minoru kuwahara]

To leit-san,

I read through the article on sushi in Moscow, which was interesting for knowing this dish seems to have been already popular in Russia, on the other hand, there seems to be difficulty to open up a new restaurant and run business because of the infrastructure. But the article also says the popularity of sushi in there has been growing and it will not be so far future when the business gets more competitive to be sort out. To me, it's also interesting to know there may live Japanese people working in the Russian society. How hard I imagine it could be, starting from the language...

Minoru Kuwahara

[susa-no-oo]

To me, it's also interesting to know there may live Japanese people working in the Russian society. How hard I imagine it could be, starting from the language...

Minoru Kuwahara

If someone lives faraway from home it's always hard, but I guess it could be much harder for strangers to live and work in Japan. In Russia (and worlwide) we hear so much stories about "gaijin" , and how closed is Japanese society. Is it really so ?

Если кто-то живет далеко от дома, это всегда сложно, но мне кажется , что много сложнее для иностранцев жить и работать в Японии. В России (и во всем мире) мы слышим столько историй о "гайдзинах" , и о том какое закрытое японское общество. Это действительно так ?

[minoru kuwahara]

If someone lives faraway from home it's always hard, but I guess it could be much harder for strangers to live and work in Japan. In Russia (and worlwide) we hear so much stories about "gaijin" , and how closed is Japanese society. Is it really so ?

Если кто-то живет далеко от дома, это всегда сложно, но мне кажется , что много сложнее для иностранцев жить и работать в Японии. В России (и во всем мире) мы слышим столько историй о "гайдзинах" , и о том какое закрытое японское общество. Это действительно так ?

I'm surprised again to hear that the term "gaijin" seems to be prevailing even in Russia. Hard to say, personally I have never used this term to refer to so-called "foreigners", but I do know certain range of people have used and still use it in some situations. It's not so much contemptuous in sense, but still not quite an intimate term to be used since it literally means "outsiders" or "people from the outer world". From what I observe, I guess some people may not be quite aware that such a term could be accepted more or less negatively. Which means most of the people may not intentionally employ the term, therefore, even though some people utter it, it's not a big thing to note because it's like a matter of convention after all...

In hundreds of years ago, that is the Age of Sakaku (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%83), it was very true that the country was literally "closed" in that foreign trades were forbidden with all countries except the Holland and China and even that was only via the port in Nagasaki, Western Japan. In contrast, in modern days since the latter half of the 19th century, Japan has tried to come up with the West, accepting and learning lots of things, and which has been followed by the flow of American culture and economy (where is Russian's?  ). And especially for the past decades or so, I guess the number of people travelling abroad increases while the number of people coming to Japan also grows, and with the arrival of Internet, it's become amazingly easier to get information about everything from different countries, besides domestically. I think people in Japan have more or more accustomed to confrontation with people from different countries and have respect towards their cultures.   

On the other hand, probably like in most countries, unfortunately there may be some people who are not so tolerant against people from other countries, especially from China and Korea....That is not formed in violence or so forth, probably only reflecting such people's general views towards China or Korea. I know this just by viewing the threads posted in the Yahoo!News, for example. Saying that, if you are really concerned about how "closed" Japanese can be towards foreign visitors, you would not have to worry so much as long as you know the basic things in the cutoms and behave decently, which I guess is exactly the same thing for us visiting other countries. Of course, if you know or are learning the language, that's better to help you communicate with peple - and survive on business and life.

by the way, your question leads me to curiosity. How, then, do you guess Russia or Ukraina are "closed" against foreign comers to the countries? Russians or Ukrainians are tolerable with situations of confrontation with "foreigners" generally? One of the news I recently heard made me concerned on this matter. In it, they say there was violence and even killing in Russia againt 18 or more workers from Central Asian countries, which I think is horrible. On other occasion, I heard in a news Chinese seemed to be the target of violence, even if they are decent college students, because they look Asians. This news sort of horrifies me because Japanese could be easily their target as far as our appearance is concerned. From what I heard from leit-san's post, I had an impression that there is a variety of people with different races, ethnic backgrounds or cultures in the modern-time Russia...

 

[susa-no-oo]

I thought so. I never was in Japan  , but I think there are too much stereotypes about Japan. And pretty often those stereotypes are negative. In not-japanese heads lives some strange attitude to Japan. Some mix of ideas about modern japanese hightech , ninja things , anime , zen and WWII in Pacific from American and English point of view. So I believe, and I want to believe, that stories about how closed is  Japanese society are overempasized.
And one more thing. It's a shame , but you are right about xenophobia (especially racism) in our countrys. I just hope , that everything is changing , so we all are going into the future when will be no difference between nation and races.



Я так и думал. Я никогда не был в Японии, но думаю , что о Японии существует слишком много стереотипов. И часто негативных стереотипов. В неяпонских головах живет какое-то странное отношение к Японии. Смесь представлений о японских высоких технологиях, ниндзя, анимэ, дзэн и Второй мировой войне в Тихом океане причем с англо-американской точки зрения. Так что я верю , и хочу верить , что истрии о замкнутости японского общества слишком преувеличены.
Да и еще одно. Как не стыдно , но Вы правы насчет ксенофобии (особенно расизма) в наших странах. Я все же надеюсь , что все меняется , и мы все в будущем не будем уделять никакого внимания разнице между народами и расами.

[maelstorm]

... there is a variety of people with different races, ethnic backgrounds or cultures in the modern-time Russia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

[minoru kuwahara]

I thought so. I never was in Japan  , but I think there are too much stereotypes about Japan. And pretty often those stereotypes are negative. In not-japanese heads lives some strange attitude to Japan. Some mix of ideas about modern japanese hightech , ninja things , anime , zen and WWII in Pacific from American and English point of view. So I believe, and I want to believe, that stories about how closed is  Japanese society are overempasized.

I think I should say it's true that we have stereotypes of images of other countries, being far apart and depending on whatever available information including those specifics and history of years ago, although these may partially play parts in our social and cultural formation. 

And one more thing. It's a shame , but you are right about xenophobia (especially racism) in our countrys. I just hope , that everything is changing , so we all are going into the future when will be no difference between nation and races.

I think I have heard or read same things happenning everywhere on the earth: America, Germany, France and so on, especially when economy is not favourable in view of the local people. In such a situation, working immigrants may be the target, unfortunately. Here in Japan, the situation would not be so harsh as heard in some other countries, but we never know when the number of foreign workers will increase in the long-term future, which will be mostly sure and appearing as one of the most arguable topics. 

However, for example, if you may be interested in travelling to Japan in the future, you will not have to worry, I guess. Most people here are welcoming foreign guests, although you may have difficulty in communication unless you may have some basic knowledge in Japanese. 
Just to indicate, at one famous sea food market in Tokyo, called Tsukiji (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%A6%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B7%D0%B8), the manners of foreign tourists are being questioned a lot recently! People at the market complain about their presence because of their "against-the-rule" ways of seeing around the place, such as using a flashlight while taking pictures, trespassing restricted ares, riding on forklifts without permission, etc., etc. Funny, but I guess this should be a matter of ruling as the number of tourists is growing.   

... there is a variety of people with different races, ethnic backgrounds or cultures in the modern-time Russia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

Hi, thanks for the link!

[susa-no-oo]

However, for example, if you may be interested in travelling to Japan in the future, you will not have to worry, I guess.

If I may be interested in travelling to Japan?...  I was, I am  and I allways will be interesting . I'd like to visit Japan not once, but again and again. That's my dream . Unfortunatly for me it's too expensive now, but I hope , I'll see Japan in future.

Если бы я был заинтересован посетить Японию ?... Я был , я есть и я всегда буду заинтересован. Я бы хотел побывать в Японии не раз, а возвращаться туда еще и еще. Это моя мечта. К сожалению для меня сейчас это слишком дорого, но я все же надеюсь увидеть Японию в будущем.

[susa-no-oo]

Here in Japan, the situation would not be so harsh as heard in some other countries, but we never know when the number of foreign workers will increase in the long-term future, which will be mostly sure and appearing as one of the most arguable topics. 

And what do you and other Japanese think about that. I mean comparing to other industrial countrys Japan has lowest level of immigrants (by far I know). And how I know population of Japan is getting older (actually  I love that fact , that people in the contry I like the most are living that long).  So logical resume is : Japan has less people to work, and maybe the only solution is immigration (more or less massive immigration).
Here are the questions. Is such an immigration possible in Japan? How will it change Japan? And are Japanese ready for these changes?

А что Вы и другие японцы думаете об этом. Я имею ввиду то , что , в сравнении с другими индустриально развитыми странами, в Японии наименьший уровень иммиграции (насколько я знаю). Население Японии становится старше (лично мне очень нравиться тот факт , что люди в моей любимой стране живут так долго). Логичный вывод : в Японии все меньше работоспособного населения, и иммиграция возможно единственное решение (я имею ввиду более или менее массовую иммиграцию). Возможна такая иммиграция в Японии? Как это может изменить Японию? И готовы ли японцы к таким переменам?

[minoru kuwahara]

If I may be interested in travelling to Japan?...  I was, I am  and I allways will be interesting . I'd like to visit Japan not once, but again and again. That's my dream . Unfortunatly for me it's too expensive now, but I hope , I'll see Japan in future.

I hope you would realize it some time. It's true that we condemn that almost everything is of high price here, but not anyting actually. For example, you could easily find a number of cheap good restaurant in major cities like Tokyo. I believe you will not be disappointed to taste localities!

Minoru

[minoru kuwahara]

And what do you and other Japanese think about that. I mean comparing to other industrial countrys Japan has lowest level of immigrants (by far I know). And how I know population of Japan is getting older (actually  I love that fact , that people in the contry I like the most are living that long).  So logical resume is : Japan has less people to work, and maybe the only solution is immigration (more or less massive immigration).
Here are the questions. Is such an immigration possible in Japan? How will it change Japan? And are Japanese ready for these changes?

And thank you for an interesting question. Your speculation is exactly the one we will highly probably see in the not far future. The population hierarchy is changing with the percentage of older people growing, which brings up the issue about who could be engaged in the care-giving services. In this realm, Japan would probably be depending on the workers from other countries, which is already recently being seen, when Japan made a national plan to accept care workers from Indonesia, but as you know, there seem to be also difficult issues to this, such as the language qualification, communication, etc. Personally I cannot say anything further, but I guess this will be sure to emerge as a social phenomenon. For the rest, let us leave what we will see....

[susa-no-oo]

I hope you would realize it some time. It's true that we condemn that almost everything is of high price here, but not anyting actually. For example, you could easily find a number of cheap good restaurant in major cities like Tokyo. I believe you will not be disappointed to taste localities!

Minoru

Thank you for information. But today cheapest 7-day  tour to Japan in Ukraine will take about 3000-3500 USD . Plus one way airtickets about 1000$. So I need at least 5000-7000 usd . That's a lot of money for me and for most of Ukrainian .To be honest I can earn (although it's not easy) and spend them to make dream come true, but what will I see in my first trip to Japan in only one week ? Narita airport ? I need definitely more time.
One more thing. I know only few words in Japanese. It's a shame , but my laziness is stronger than my love to Japan . But I will work on it.

P.S. About money. Maybe you think 5000$ is not so much, especialy now when because of crisis dollar is going cheaper. So I should tell you , that few thousand dollars allways was BIG MONEY in Ukraine (I guess in Russia too), and now rate of exchage is about 9-10 ukrainian hryvnas for 1$ , when few months ago it was 5 hryvnas for 1$ .


Спасибо за информацию. Но сегодня самый дешевый 7-мидневный тур в Японию из Украины стоит примерно 3000-3500$ . Плюс авиабилет в один конец около 1000$. Так что понадобится хотя бы 5000-7000USD. Для меня, как и для большинства украинцев, это очень много денег. Честно говоря я могу заработать  (хоть и с трудом)и потратить такие деньги для того , чтобы моя мечта сбылась, но что я успею увидеть за всего лишь одну неделю в Японии ? Аэропорт Нарита ? Мне определенно нужно больше времени.
Да и еще одно. Я знаю всего пару слов на японском. Моя лень сильнее моей любви к Японии . Но я исправлюсь.

P.S. О деньгах. Может Вам кажется , что 5000$ это не так много, особенно теперь, когда из-за кризиса долар дешевеет. Так вот должен Вам сказать , что пару тысяч доларов всегда были БОЛЬШИМИ ДЕНЬГАМИ в Украине (думаю в России тоже), а сейчас курс гривны составляет 9-10 за 1доллар, тогда как еще пару месяцев назад давали 5грн.

[Tahiro]

 susa-no-oo ! Действительно , за неделю Японию не увидеть...  
но за эти 5-7 тысяч $  можно поехать в японскую школу(1500 дол. за три месяца учебы),жить для экономии в дешевом общежитии от той самой школы..питаться тоже можно не дороже,чем в Киеве.. итого при желании можно пробыть в Японии от трех до шести месяцев.. А если еще и арбайто будет - то и дольше! 
P.S. В той школе,что я учился - студенты со Шри-Ланки умудрялись тратить на питание в месяц только 300 долл!!

[susa-no-oo]

ПА-А-А-ПАДРОБНЕЙ ПАЖАЛСТА ! Как это в школу ? А таких маленьких мальчиков как я (33 года) уже берут в эту школу ? Согласен голодать , есть небольшой опыт в ентом деле.

[Tahiro]

мне 34! это не имеет значения.. школ для изучения конкретно японского языка(интенсив)  для иностранцев в Токио уже очень много(правда не все одного уровня).
В основном там учатся корейцы, китайцы,но есть немного русских, и совсем мало украинцев. Хотя есть учереждения,где в основном россияне. Самые сильные в этом деле корейцы, поэтому учиться в классе лучше с ними.  Более того они очень дружелюбны( чего не скажешь о других азиатах)
Все, находишь школу, подаешь нужные им документы - они делают приглашение , идешь в посольство и получаешь визу. Советую для начала поехать хотя бы на три месяца. Полный курс - 2 года. Каждый день по четыре урока,кроме выходных. Куча дом.заданий и школа организовывает разные экскурсии..Всем очень нравится!
При усердии и желании, через полгода будешь спокойно общаться с местным населением на простые темы, через год -уверенно говорить на японском.
Проблема для наших(европейцев) одна - это иероглифы! 
P.S. Никто не говорит про голодание, просто экономия на продуктах, так как есть оччень дорогие...
Да, извиняюсь..так немного отошел от основной ТЕМЫ.

[susa-no-oo]

Да, извиняюсь..так немного отошел от основной ТЕМЫ.

Согласен . От темы отклонились, но ввиду того , что Вы можете оказаться просто бесценным кладезем знаний о том как реально попасть в Японию, милости прошу на специализированую тему.

http://forum.leit.ru/index.php?topic=898.0